by britta
Windowfarms Kits- Give us your feedback?
8:19 pm in kits, Materials and Resources, questions, Seeking Advice, Windowfarms Project News by britta
We are almost there on kits, Folks. We would love your input on a couple of things.
For more about why we are making kits, read this.
Here’s how kits are looking.
You will choose between a 2-column or 4-column windowfarm. You WILL have to be able to screw at least 4 screws into your upper window sill. The bottom bottle of each strand will be the reservoir.
We will probably produce the first batch by hand ourselves here in the Brooklyn shop but the next batches may be handled by an awesome little organization that hires the disabled just North of the city.
Get a sneak peek of the one we have in Brooklyn headquarters here.
Major points up for debate:
1) To give you the bottles or ask you to supply your own. If you supply your own, you need to drill through the tough end very precisely and this can be a dangerous task with a drill or a red hot cylinder. However, sourcing the bottles and getting them to you is very expensive on our end. What do you say? Would you be willing to pay a premium to not have to find, drill, cut, and paint your own bottles?
2) To include the pump or not. The petco pump is the best one we have found and it comes with air valves. However, some people have found that their pumps are duds. Having to deal with Petco’s duds will be a big burden on us that will take away from our mission work. We’d prefer to simply have a button while you are buying you kit that you press to order your pump from Petco separately. Is this a deal killer?
3) Lights. Almost everyone really needs them but no one ever wants to get lights. That is, until after they start raising their little baby plants and the plants come out looking leggy/scrawny. You can pump them full of nutrients but if they don’t have enough light to process the nutrients through photosynthesis, it is very sad =<. Anyway, I'm thinking we will sell lights as a separate kit. You would buy individual strands. Sound good?
Also, if you have a great business mind, experience with this kind of production setup, and some time to volunteer, we would love to hear from you. Send me a message by finding Britta under members.
I’m of two minds about this. My first reaction is that if I were to buy a kit it would be best if all the necessary pieces were in the same box. When I buy other kinds of starter kits I know that I’m paying extra for the convenience of having someone else assemble the necessaries. So in this case I think a complete kit would appeal to people who don’t want to hassle with drilling bottles and dealing with possible returns of non-working pump. It would be interesting to know the cost of the labor involved in Windowfarms staff prepping and testing all the parts.
My other opinion is that a good substitute would be an accurate parts list for pump, lights and bottles etc; preferably one that could be sourced at one or two stores. The lists in the current design documents are great but if they were a bit more specific about stores (web and physical) and accurate it would be a fine supplement to a partial kit.
My two cents. Hope it’s helpful. I’m definitely interested in trying one of the kits for a different window in my apartment.
Could you make maybe 3 different levels of kits? The cheapest would require the buyer to obtain bottles, pump and light themselves, the middle priced one would include the bottles and pump, the most expensive would add in the lights and be a 100% everything you need including screws kit.
Just a thought…
I think Dave’s idea is a good one.
If you want to provide only one type of kit, I would recommend including the bottles, but not the lights or pump. Dealing with the bottles seems like a big issue–I for one do not have a drill, nor any idea how to drill holes short of actually buying a drill.
Having a separate buy button to Petco seems entirely reasonable.. This is much less problematic than the bottles.
I think selling lights as a separate kit makes perfect sense.
It seems to me that including plastic bottles in a kit would be anathema to the windowfarms ethos, if such a thing exists — the whole appeal of DIY “sustainable design” and “green” whateverness sort of falls flat when yr shipping plastic bottles across the country (or maybe across a few boroughs, but still).
i guess i see the appeal of pre-fab and also i think that you guys should definitely pursue the kits thing and “stack up that paper”, but i feel like plastic bottles are pretty easy to find in your neighbor’s recycling bin etc.
also! you guys could always throw a paypal button on the site, reading something like “donate to windowfarms today” or whatever.
Yes. All valid points, Dan.
I would love to not have to include the bottles in the kits. Including bottles is indeed anathema to the wf ethos. It is going to be so expensive and time consuming to prep them– not to even mention the environmental impact.
However, the first batch of kits are not going to be cheap and that puts us in a tricky position. The first batch of anything is always more expensive to make. We have heard from some of the “early adopter” customers who are willing to pay high prices for the first batch that they want us to include the bottles or they are not going to buy them. The kind of customer we have for the first batch may be just the kind of person who will not go get bottles and wants immediate gratification in exchange for cash. They will be our financiers. In the general interest of getting the project as a whole to financial self-sustainability, this may turn out to be the place where we have to compromise for the first few batches. I think will offer non-bottle kits and just charge a large fee to people who want the bottles too. However, if anyone has any other suggestions, please message me.
Thank you! You guys are rad.
I am having a challenge finding finding Petco pumps here in canada as well as having them shipped. Unless you know where these area available internationally I would suggest including them in the kit.
I am an NPR convert, and I wholly endorse the idea of a ready-made, complete kit.
You should make a reasonable profit on the kit to help your finances. Make it cool- looking too, to encourage more people to buy and to get involved!
I think it’s a good idea to charge a premium for bottles as an additional option.
As someone else said, I have no problem with finding my own bottles but I don’t have a drill nor do any of my friends. Perhaps you could include suggestions for finding them? I’m thinking of checking this site for anyone in the Boston area who has one, but if you have any other ideas they would be appreciated.
The separate lights and button for pumps sound fine to me.
*I meant to offer bottles for the first batch. I agree that it doesn’t fit w/ the green ethos, so I wouldn’t after that.
As an individual trying to start my first windowfarm and running across some of the same challenges people have already mentioned…I vote: don’t include bottles seriously they are quite easy to find…maybe the 1 gallon bottle if necessary; include the pump if possible, but if you include a link to the exact model we need to purchase that should be sufficient; selling the lights as a separate kit sounds good, everyone’s living/window situation is different and it may be unnecessary for some.
I think everyone here is making valid points and suggestions. Can you give a little more info on the issue of drilling holes in the bottom? My first thought was that I’d like the bottles ready to go, but the shipping/sustainability issue gave me pause…
As someone who is not very mechanically minded, I would prefer a kit that included everything that is essential (lights would not be essential for me, I have plenty of natural light) to set up the system and a DVD or access to a video on the web with step by step instructions. However what I think would be even better is if you had a workshop to which people could bring all the parts, build one and take it home.
I’m from PA but I would definitely be willing do drive to NY for a hands on tutorial.
Well it’s been a wile since you posted this, but if it’s not to late for me to throw in two cents, I will (I guess i will, even if it is too late).
I really think that most people will make the whole thing themselves, or will have problems assembling a complete kit.
This is a relatively easy DIY project, so if someone wants to buy a per-fab, then they likely are not going to want to do anything construction related, unless it is really really simple.
Hi everyone …. i stumbled upon this site and my very first question was “where do I buy that nifty pump and the proper tube fittings?” I would request that these items be included in the kit.
1. Have options- several kit designs – maybe a “build a kit” and folks can decide how handy they are and how much they can/want to spend. ie: list each “item” for the kid – 1.essentials, 2.tubing, 3.baskets, 4.bottles, 5.lights 6.complete DIY instructions – with source information options – something like that, I am an NPRian and haven’t built one yet, just getting started, so you would know a reasonable breakdown to kit parts better than I do at this point. The packing warehouse can be set up with each part and a preplanned box and way to fit things in so packing could go smoothly – per cusom order.
2. We don’t know what level of adventure, creativity and resources folks will bring. The folks who have been blogging are the genuine start-up people – obviiously thinking and creataive entreprenuers who are ready to tackle the whole project. How far do you want this concept to reach? There are a lot of folks who may feel they can find the bottles, but not sure about drilling etc. Some will have the money to buy a comlete kit, but no time. Give a discount for each additional item or for the full kit, if it makes sense that time and money will be saved or for any other reason that makes sense.
3. Price kits and kit parts at the actual cost with a reasonable markaup. Have a spot on the order for form freewill donations to keep the org growing. Have a spot for donations for community support for folks who don’t have financial resources and make sure these ideas get to the ones who could really use them for nourishment and health who couldn’t otherwide afford them.
4. Create a “Kit for Kids” with youth friendly pictures and directions – test market it at a daycare or school- and make a small kit – really complete – with bottles and seeds or seedlings or coupon for seedlings? (if they can be mailed out immediately so there is no lag time – otherwide let kids get seedlings on their own) or include a seedling kit that can be done in windows with soil and instructions on how to transfer to the windowfarm..this is a great idea to get families and schools, churches and scouts, etc. started and spread the word/info faster. For PR, make some donations to a school or some such and have it covered in the paper as a feature…A kid friendly project can also get more subdivision people on board with the idea – not so urban but yet not with room for their own gardens but who are thrilled for their kids to have a green project… sell these kits through highend kids toy catalogs, esp for Christmas…etc…
5. Re: drills and any other “tools” why not sell them too? Have a virtual warehouse agreement with the sources, you get the order, make a commissin and shoot the order over to the manufacturer who sends the items out quickly and efficiently (you would have to test and verify integrity of companies you work with.)
6. Remeber – there are a lot of folks out there who may be interested and willing but who just don’t feel like tacking the ground up building approach.
7. Re: cost of bottles, charge what it costs (labor and materials) and a reasonable markup for funding the org. and let those who really want them pay the actual cost. (again – how about a discount or scholarship for folks who can’t do it themselves?) This is still becoming a perfect world and I wonder and propose if maybe it is important enough to get the idea circulating and being used to blink a little for those who want/feel the need to buy bottles even if it is less ethical – per your model. Just hold the expectation that Window Farms Project will take off so bigtime that there will be small franchise stores and builders across the nation – so bottles can be provided locally!!!
8. What about the diabled community – phyically challenged folks who can’t physically put farms together but would use farms that could be set up for them and modified for their use? Will volunteers come forward in different localities to help with this? What about the mentally challenged? Building farms might be a great project for some schools that need ways to support themselves…
9. Britta – I am simply enchanted with your project and the ethical and community focus…a forerunner for the new paradigm: new world and integral evoluntionary…….I am grateful for your gift to us…
Thanks, Candace. Your kind words of encouragement mean a lot to me. Thanks for all the great feedback about the kits too. It is definitely a challenge to balance the environmental, social, and financial bottom lines I’m learning! Feedback from the community and making the process transparent is the way to go as much as I can I think. It is really great and all pays off when folks like you just really get it. -B
are caps made in standard sizes for water bottles? why not just include the caps in the kit? Then no drilling required, which is tough for people without drills or the confidence to DIY. The water bottle cutting and taping, on the other hand, should be easy enough for most. This would minimize the size of the kit for shipping and allow folks to source water bottles from the recycling bin without worrying about the often misplaced caps.
(I’m just getting started on a manufacturing biz myself and am very excited to see what you come up with!)
My 2ยข is that a kit should be all inclusive, i know it seems counterproductive to send out bottles in a kit but if I was going to buy a kit for anything It is probably because I am overwhelmed but want to try something.
hi there,
just a quick feedback on the three issues you came accross creating the kits:
1) include the bottles in the kit. Whoever opts to buy a kit from you instead of making his own window farm from scratch, will need bottles in a “ready-to-assemble” state. Not adding the bottles contradicts the whole concept of a window-farm kit, in my opinion
2) do not include the pump. you will have to buy tons of them (dead capital of which I understand your organisation does not have plenty), store them… add a detailed list of recommended pumps instead, one unskilled window farmers can take to the next shop and still get exactly what they need. I like the “pump upgrade” idea though.
3) the under 2) mentioned applies here as well.
One overall comment regarding the production and sales set-up: keep it simple, at least in the beginning. Offering many different types of kits increases complexity (logistics) and need for capital; your risk of ending up with obsolete parts increases dramatically. Start with a simpler kit version to see whether or not the concept of selling kits really does skyrocket. You are only talking to keen window farmers on this website, so do not expect “outsiders” to be as enthusiastic about it. If there is in fact a need for differentiation, the customer will let you know early enough. Just make sure his or her feedback is paid attention to…
best of luck from germany,
ti-bob
hi,
one thing regarding the kits’ composition: include the large bottle/container which serves as reservoir. ideally, it would be a container you could ship the entire kit in without any other extra waste-intensive packaging. this way, the kit can be stored “in itself” if and as long the windowfarm has to be taken down during a move etc.
ti-bob
Personally I think the people who are going to buy these kits should come at it with a “some assembly required” approach…. Part of the draw for WF (as I’ve considered the last few days, even though I’ve only just stumbled across the site) is the re-use of water bottles. There has to be a hands-on involvement, a degree of interaction with the components. It’s part of the education, too, isn’t it? Kit-buyers should be encouraged as much as possible to make it “their own.”
We’re trying to work with the materials that are already produced under our over-producing, consumer-capitalist system – not add too much to the mess!
Hello Friends
I want to first say what a wonderful thing you are doing, how innovative and creative, bravo!!!!!
Second of all, I have been reading studies as herbalist for the last six years and consulting sources from only highly credible physicians and practitioners who are known widely (to be sure I am really reading accurate information). I wanted to weigh in with this:
Plastics leach PVC’s into our foods which cling to fatty tissue (brain, breast, etc) and contribute to breast and other kinds of cancer. This is something for window farmers to know.
Aluminum cans also have their hazards. Aluminum leaching into foods or from deodorants, etc has been linked to alzheimer’s, reduced IQ in children, and to certain kinds of cancer as well.
FYI according to Dr Joseph Mercola, a whopping 40% of our nation will at some point have a brush-up with cancer during their lifetime. That’s out of 340 million Americans! Of these, 20% will die from it. So is this a rant or something to be truly cautious about? I will let you decide. For myself, and for anyone I advise, I suggest that to cut down on chemical exposure in our life is key.
What is the solution? I would suggest that lead-free glass bottles would be the safest way to go. Clay or earthenware pots, without glazes or at least with glazes disclosing all the ingredients. But that is not as easy for window farming as other light-weight products, of course.
Perhaps there can be mechanisms devised for supporting heavier window farming structures, for those who are interested?
Anyone who wants to read further regarding ingredients in glazes, PVCs, heavy metals and other environmental contaminants, can go to the Environmental WOrking Group’s webpage and read about individual contaminants and their health/environmental impacts.
Dr Joseph Mercola has an email series (Free) of almost daily health articles, and his work is all about reducing chemical exposure in one’s life. He is really good about this topic, and his articles are excellent and in lay-friendly language.
YOu can also read a little bit about PVCs in foods on Dr Andrew Weils’ website http://www.drweil.com
See also here: http://www.healthy.net you can enter almost any health-related matter, symptom, etc into the search box. Articles posted here are strictly by renowned naturopathic physicians, herbalists, acupuncturists, oriental medicine doctors, etc who really know their stuff and are respected nationally or world-wide. So it’s really accurate information.
Best wishes everybody! Again what a wonderful thing you are doing. I think individualized farming may be the way of the future. I love the innovation and independent thinking here. BRAVO!!!! —Drina Brooke, herbalist ps see my articles here, if interested
http://www.survivingthemiddleclasscrash.wordpress.com/herbal-corner
Thanks for all your advice, guys. This really helped. We have now got the process worked out better and have also seen a lot of demographic trends over the last 6-8 months since we started selling kits and bottles. We are now selling kits with bottles pulled from the trash and prepared by the Mid-Hudson Workshop for the Disabled as well as unprepped bottles simply pulled from the trash. Soon, I think we are going to start custom producing some of the bottles, especially the bottom reservoirs, just because it will cost way less and ultimately be less junk. I’ve had to think long and hard about this but I think it will let us make more of a difference by letting people who aren’t as handy just skip to the windowfarming. We are going to make them still assemble the parts so they know how it works, though. I think that is a very important point @Dresden_Scott