by britta
Airlift Troubleshooting
2:24 am in Getting Started, Materials and Resources, Projects in Process, questions, Seeking Advice by britta
So, here’s the thing about collective R&D. It isn’t pretty. Just like science, a lot of times, things don’t work out right at first and sometimes they never do. But you learn a lot as you try to fix them. We are all working through this together and these things will be awesome and foolproof one day, but you are an early adopter. You have my promise that these #%#$%@ things can work, have worked, do work. We just need to find the problem with yours. Deep breath.
It is so much easier to SEE what should be adjusted. If after following these instructions you are still having problems, PLEASE CREATE A NEW POST AND UPLOAD PICTURES OF THE PARTS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, TAG IT AIRLIFT TROUBLESHOOTING, & THEN JUST LINK TO YOUR POST in the comments below.
1) Please make sure you have the latest version of the how-to for the airlift system. Updates (like software updates) have been made to the instructions. The updates were made to correct issues that we found people were running into. The file should be called “3plantairliftHOWTO_3_4_10.pdf”.
2) Pump- Get the PETCO Air Pump 2-Way For 13-106 gallon Aquariums Model 9903 http://www.petco.com/product/109838/PETCO-Air-Pump.aspx
3) Tubing-
Get it at Canal Rubber.
x1 3/8″ OUTSIDE DIAMETER 1/4″ Inside Diameter Reinforced Kuritec Tubing at 4′6″ long
X2 1/4″ O.D. 1/8″ I.D. Vinyl tubing at 2′6″ long
x1 3/8″ O.D. 1/4″ ID Vinyl tubing at 6′ long
4) One-way air valves-You need these. Trust me. If you get the Petco pump, these come with it for free! Otherwise, you need to go to an aquarium store and tell them you want one way check valves for an air pump. They will cost about $3 each. You need to insert these in the line between the pump and your windowfarm. Be sure they are facing the right way (blow thru them to test) and turn on the pump with your valves inserted before you insert the tubing in water. Otherwise, your air tubes might fill with water and your system will not pump as high.
5) Bottom reservoir- You want your airlift tube submerged under the tallest possible column of water. That’s just how to physics work. So, if you use the 1 Gallon Poland Springs bottle, fill it up as high as possible. If you use something else, make sure you have picked a container that is going to create a tall column. By the same token, if your tube is curling so that it is effectively not submerged under a tall column, zip tie it to something rigid to straighten it out and create the max submersion height.
6) Angled bottom to tube- Cut your water intake tube (the Reinforced 3/8″ OUTSIDE DIAMETER 1/4″ Inside Diameter) at an angle at the bottom so that it does not just suck on the bottom of your reservoir.
7) More teflon plumber’s tape at the joints- you may have a leak somewhere.
Bad air valve? We have had a quality control issue with the air valves on occasion. Take the out. Blow through them. Is one harder to blow through than the other? If so, replace or try cleaning/soaking in alcohol.
9) Smoother interior walls for your tube and rigidity- If you’ve tried all of these things and they don’t work, go to canal plastics and get some rigid acrylic tube with a 1/4″ inside diameter and 3/8″ outside diameter. Go to canal rubber and get some vinyl tubing with a 3/8″ inside diameter (for a curved u back into the column at the top). Replace the reinforced tubing with this more rigid and smoother walled tube. It is what we are using for the next generation windowfarms . . . coming soon in kits.
Just to ask, why use a air pump lift and not just a normal pump? Does the aeration of the water matter that much?
http://www.tomaquarium.com/prod_details.php?cat=29&p=58
Something like that which sells for <20 CAD can easily carry the water to whatever levels you need it at….
So I’ve slowly been gathering my supplies to build an airlift system and I’m starting to assemble things but one thing I cannot figure out exactly is what to do with all the tubing!
I bought the necessary tubing on the materials list but the petco pump also comes with two tubes which appear to be very similar to the two 1/4″x1/8″ vinyl tubes on the list. Do I need both sets?
I am also confused about where the one-way air valves go. Yes, I know “in the line between the pump and your windowfarm” but I was looking for a little more detailed instruction. I just need to be walked through the process- I’ve never done anything like this before.
Perhaps in the future it would be helpful (at least for people as inexperienced as I) to describe on the materials list what each set of tubing is for (i.e. airlift, adapter tubing, air pump connection, etc.) so as to avoid over-buying, if in fact that is what happened in my case.
Thanks for putting up with all the questions- I just need a little more guidance. I’m excited to get all this sorted out and start growing!
i’m having trouble getting the water to pump up my tube. any thoughts?
@jzas55 you are going to have to be more specific about which of these troubleshooting tips you have already tried. Also, pictures help the community troubleshoot for you. I recommend that you create a new post so you can add pictures and simply link to your post here in the comments. If you are not sure how to make a post, click thru from the homepage on “getting started”. Include pictures in your post by clicking on the little sunflash icon next to add media above the text window while you are tying.
Hi. What version of the how-to are you looking at? I’m suspecting you may be operating off of an old version. There should be illustrations in the PDF that show you where everything including each size of tubing goes. If you are not sure, please download the instructions again and just compare them to your current version. In a very early version of the howtos, there was a mistyped tubing size and there were not enough pictures and illustrations. Some blogs have linked to this old archived version we can’t find out on the internet. (Problems we think we have resolved by making the new how-to release for v3.0 and beyond web-based rather than downloadable PDFs).
You do need all sets of tubing. The thinnest one (which came with your pump) goes from your pump into the bottom reservoir. The midsize is just a little section over the end of the previously mentioned thinnest tubing to sleeve it onto the airneedle. The thickest tubing runs all the way up the back of your system and the airneedle punctures it at the bottom. The photographs in the current version 2.0 instructions show you what each part looks like.
If you check out version 1.0, the reservoir system, it uses a water pump. Water pumps are finnicky things and make for a much more complicated system, unltimately, which is why the community has moved away from them over time. The particles of nutrients in the water eventually clog the pump and cause it to die. Among other problems. You should see the collection of dead water pumps in the Windowfarms headquarters shop.
If your bottom bottles are doing lots of bubbling instead, it is likely that there is no water flowing up the water tubes. The air coming out of the needle needs to be ‘persuaded’ to stay inside the water tube and not bubble out the bottom. Ensure you’ve done these tasks:
1) Seat your tube. The base of the water tube needs to be completely seated over the top of the air needle. This means you want the tip of the air needle as deep inside the water tube as possible, creating at least a 1 inch ‘overlap’ between the tip of the needle (where the air bubbles are released) and the base of the tube (where the water enters the tube). This distance helps prevent the air bubbles from escaping. You may need to use tape or the plant strips to keep the base of the water tube seated, preventing it from ‘scooting up’ and reducing your overlap distance.
NOTE: You do not want the base of the water tube to be completely obstructed by the air needle. Doing so would not allow water to enter the tube! There should be a small gap at the base of the water tube that allows water to enter the base of the tube.
2) Keep the water high – Keep the water level in your bottom bottle reservoirs high. As the water level drops in the bottom bottles, the pressure on the water column reduces. This situation increases the likelyhood of air bubbles escaping from the base of the water tube instead of traveling up inside of it!
3) Adjust your pump – A proper air flow rate is critical to provide enough force to carry water up the water tubes. If the air flow rate is too low, the air flow will not be strong enough to overcome the weight of the water in the tube. In this case, and no water will travel up the tube and instead the bubbles will escape from the bottom of the water tube.
To adjust the output rate of the air bubbles, use the knob on top of your pump.
NOTE: There are factors that influence the required power setting of the pump, including:
- The length of the airline tube running between the pump and the bottom bottle. Shorter lines are more efficient and will generally require a lower power setting. Avoid having significantly different lengths of airline running to the same pump.
4) Straighten your water tube – Maintaining a straight, vertical, plumb water tube is critical to efficient water flow up the tube. Use tape and/or the plant tape strips to straighten the tube.
In my experience, my airlift works better if I don’t use the full strength of my pump. I have a regulator on it that lets me reduce the amount of air going into the lift. I noticed that when I used full strength air, the water just gurgled and danced in the tube around the air. With slower air the water goes up in consistant pulses.
Melissa
Horror of horrors!!
I’m using the airlift system, and ran a test last night. Everything went quite well, and I ran it for 30minutes, roughly. I turned it off to simulate the 15minute/1 hour cycle changeover, then turned it back on. Air came pouring out of the water inlet. GRRRR!!!! I couldn’t resurrect the proper function, and put it off till today.
It’s going up less than 4 feet/more than 3 from the top of an 18″ deep water reservoir. The air is being injected via a t-connection (not needle insertion) . I’ve tested water inlet lines that are 18″ long, 3″ long and 6″ long.
My working theory right now is that the quantity of water in the riser tube is such that it is less energy for the air to exit through the water inlet even though I’ve got the other end of the water tube below the air inlet in the T.
So, why does it only work once?
I’ve looked at the ‘basic troubleshooting’. I’m fairly confident I’ve mined the data I can from there, and I really don’t want to shell out for the legit rigid tubes. I’ve got mine loosely zip-tied to dowels. Straight enough!
When I get home I’ll try out a different pump, or shorter line from pump to hydroponics, but that shouldn’t be it.
Suggestions appreciated.
Hi all,
With my first system i found i could get it to work perfectly the first time i turned it on and it would stay working indefinitely. But if i turned it off and then back on again, the air would come out the bottom instead of going up the airlift tube. This prevented me from using a timer on the system since i couldn’t ensure that it would operate properly when it came back on. If i did turn it off and back on again, in order to get it running i had to take the tube off the air pump and blow through it and clear the airlift tube out.
My system uses a air needle (i think that’s what they’re called) that is inserted in the airlift tube about 2 inches above the bottom. The reservoir bottle i use is about 9 inches high so the water column was about 7 inches above the air insertion point and 2 inches below it. The airlift tube has an inner dimension of 3/8″.
The problem was that if i turned it off after it was working for awhile, there would still be water left in the tube ABOVE the air needle insertion point that hadn’t made it all the way to the top of the system. Because the volume of this water was greater then the water below the air needle, the air would take the path of least resistance and go down instead of up. To fix this, i added about 8 inches of tubing the bottom end of the airlift tube. Now the airlift tube goes to the bottom of the reservoir, takes a turn and goes around the bottom of the reservoir. (about 10 inches below the air insertion point now whereas it used to be 2 inches)
This means the water volume in the airlift tube BELOW the air insertion point is ALWAYS GREATER then above it. Now when i turn the system on, the air seeks the path of least resistance and goes up. Works like a charm and i’m very happy with it working every time i turn it on.
I think the WindowFarm instructions that i got off this site are misleading in a way because the phrase “keep the airlift tube straight as possible” is repeated over and over. But to me, this only applies to the portion of tube that is above the water reservoir. If the airlift tube goes to the bottom of the reservoir and turns 90 degrees, this is alright as long as water is still filling the tube. The most important thing is to ensure that the volume of water in the airlift tube below the air insertion point is greater the above it. This will cause the air to seek the path of least resistance,..UP,..where you want it to go.
So if you’re having trouble with air bubbling out the bottom of your airlift tube, stick an extra few inches of tubing on the bottom and see what happens.
@zeptepe, I really like your post.
I just set up my first window farm trying to use the v3 but discovered the instructions to be both difficult to find on the website and difficult to follow. The reason that they were hard to follow is in my opinoin that they don’t explain the idea of each step and it is impossiblie to understand the reasoning behind each procedure in the walkthrough.
I also had problemsonce everything was in place. I just couldn’t stop the air from escaping backwards and into the reservoir instead of lifting the water up to the top. After trying several hours I gave up and set up the v2 instead using “the needle”-procedure. Still I had difficulties with air escaping backwards until I read melissa’s blogpost explaining briefly her airlift (http://melissawindowfarm.blogspot.com/2011/03/setting-up-my-second-column-week-3.html).
Reading your post zeptete I understand the simple logic behind my problems, why my airlift stopped working when I turned it off and on. The water volume above was simply greater than the volume below. Making a coil in the bottom of my reservoir solved the problem and the lift works perfectly on a very small air-stream.
This makes my wonder how the WF v3 can manage to lift the water at all. Do the two versions work by different physical laws? Could it be that while one air-lift pushes the water in front of the air the other pulls it up? I at least think this is a very interesting question, specially when designing future WF. Both instructions and troubleshooting should be different depending on by which physical laws the air-lift works. Thanks for a great site but I second the motion structuring at as a wiki.
@zeptepe, Your right on with your assesment.
I have been having trouble setting up my air-lifter and as you say its all down to the path of least resistance. Tuning the needle valve system relies on many variables which can change, especially the water level. The system you describe, like the one Melissa uses takes away these variables and also allows for the use of cheaper tubing and compensates for the odd kink in the hose (I cannot get the proper hose in Dubai). I am also going to try a one way valve in the bottom of the coil in the reservoir this will ensure that the air flows up the air-lift tube, once the air startes rising then the reverse pressure should also reduce. I will try this out and then I may be able to remove the coil in the bottom of the reservoir. The T valve system is a lot easier to make than the needle valve type as you do not have to fool around drilling the cap and ensuring that it is water tight. Good luck.
I ran into the same problem as others, with the air lift not wanting to start actually lifting after being off (like with a timer).
I finally found a solution that seems to be working consistently, and it is pretty simple. I found that when I put my finger over the end of the water intake tube, the pressure would help to lift those first few drops up the tube, so to simulate this I taped a little piece of a sponge over the end of the tube. Now my air lift seems to be starting up consistently every time without my having to help it out
Just thought I’d throw that out there for anyone else having this problem.
Thanks for all the great info here guys, this should be ‘stickied’…this has me understanding the process much better and a lot closer to consistent pumping (my reservoirs bubble about 99% of the time). Is everyone finding consistency with the tubing coil in the reservoir trick? I have to go buy some flexible tubing and try that. Alyssa, I don’t follow your sponge solution..you are taping a small piece of sponge on the tubing where the water enters first enters the planters at the top?
Scratch the sponge question, I understand you now.
On the subject of airlift, are there any foreseeable problems using a vinyl tube as my airlift tube? I haven’t been able to find a kuretic-reinforced version of that size. Thanks!
I love sponge solution, @Alyssa S.